Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history

Please add requests for MILHIST participation to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Requests for project input. This includes requests for comment, requested moves, articles for deletion, and more.

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Summary of Military history WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · full list News and announcements Tranche XXIV of the WikiProject coordinators has been elected. The October newsletter is now available. Editors are advised that Featured Articles promoted before 2016 are in need of review, if you had an article promoted to Featured status on or before 2016 please check and update your article before they are listed at FAR/C. Current discussions No major discussions are open at the moment Featured article candidates Yugoslav torpedo boat T6 • Boot Monument • Roswell incident • Busbridge War Memorial • Battle of Big Black River Bridge • Teddy Wynyard • Siege of Breteuil Featured article review Byzantine Empire • Edward I of England • Northrop YF-23 • Isaac Brock • Pre-dreadnought battleship Featured picture candidates Thorsten Nordenfelt A-Class review Miyoshi Nagayoshi • Lockheed YF-22 • USS Texas (BB-35) • John S. McCain Sr. • Project Pluto Peer reviews 1939 Liechtenstein putsch • Sher Shah Suri • Rwandan genocide • Battle of Chunj • War of the Antiochene Succession Good article nominees Mohammad Shah Qajar • Battle of Ekiokpagha • Simon Stuart (general) • Dabney Coleman • Crusading movement • Black and Tans • Ottoman destroyer Yarhisar • Regency of Algiers • History of the Regency of Algiers • Perdiccas • Ziaur Rahman • Pierre François Bauduin • Federalist No. 29 • Mongol invasion of Khorasan • HMS Sheffield (C24) • Charles the Bold • James Alexander Ulio • Central Powers • Short Sunderland in New Zealand service • Te Pōrere Redoubts • Aromal Chekavar • Edward W. Gantt • Tumu Crisis • 1838 Mormon War • Mseilha Fort • SMS Viper • SMS Hay (1860) • SMS Albatross (1871) • Shō Hashi Good article reassessments Battle of Plataea • Mehmed II's Albanian campaign • USS Texas (BB-35) • Hans-Ulrich Rudel • Haile Selassie • Joseph McCarthy Articles that need... work on referencing and citation (149,035) • only work on referencing and citation (43,223) • work on coverage and accuracy (124,514) • only work on coverage and accuracy (19,912) • work on structure (31,931) • only work on structure (336) • work on grammar (8,182) • only work on grammar (46) • work on supporting materials (33,005) • only work on supporting materials (1,291) • assessment (10) • assessment as lists (0) • project tags fixed (4) • assessment checklists added (0) • assessment checklists completed (3) • task forces added (11) • attention to task force coverage (654)

Requests for project input

Help reference military history articles in the WikiProject Unreferenced Articles #NOV24 Backlog Drive

Hi WikiProject Military history, I’d like to invite anyone interested to join the WikiProject Unreferenced Articles #NOV24 Backlog Drive. There's already been an impressively large reduction in the number of unreferenced military history articles over the last months, but in case you want to apply any more of that energy to the drive, you can quickly access a list of remaining ones here. The drive runs through November, and any help adding reliable sources is welcome. Thanks! Turtlecrown (talk) 13:35, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Inaccurate article section War Reserve Constables

It's been suggested I draw attention to this Talk:War reserve constable both on here and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement in the hope someone with better skills and ideas than myself can sort out an inaccuate section (they says only 3 WRCs were killed 'in the line of duty' when that's clearly not the case. Many thanks to anyone willing to have a look! Rhillman (talk) 18:15, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:5.56×45mm NATO#Requested move 29 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:5.56×45mm NATO#Requested move 29 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 01:22, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)#Requested move 6 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)#Requested move 6 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. estar8806 (talk) ★ 01:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Haile Selassie

Haile Selassie has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:38, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Eric Braeden#Wilhelm Gustloff

Your input would be welcome at Talk:Eric Braeden#Wilhelm Gustloff. Thanks for participating! Renerpho (talk) 03:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Question on one or two MilHist-related articles at the Teahouse

Hi! One of the articles mentioned at Wikipedia:Teahouse#Request for third party feedback may fall under the scope of this WikiProject—not sure about the other; if the articles are within scope, please feel free to respond said articles' talk pages (or the Teahouse) instead of here. Thank you! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Mini-drive on Category:Military history articles needing attention only to structure

I recently asked for help here on assessing articles in Category:Military history articles needing attention only to supporting materials. Contributions by Chipmunkdavis, Hawkeye7, Matarisvan, Pickersgill-Cunliffe, Zawed, Hog Farm and Sturmvogel 66 brought down that category's backlog by 50 or so and helped make progress towards our B-class target (we nudged up 0.1% on the target over the period, but not all of this will be down to the new articles generated from the drive).

I thought I would try to replicate this success in another area. These articles in theory need only attention to structure ie. section headers and lead paragraph. Same procedure as before:

Look at one of the articles below and either:

• If you think it passes all of the B-class criteria and you haven't been involved in writing the article, assess it as B-class on the talk banner template
• If you think the article requires improvement against another of the B-class criteria, assess it as so on the talk banner template
• If you can improve the article to meet all of the B-class criteria, do so and then list it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Requests for formal assessment

When you have done one of these actions strike through the article name and sign against it on the list below

Thanks in advance everybody - Dumelow (talk) 15:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Classical

• Battle of CoronateAdded lead plus bit of tidy. Fails B2. Improvement suggestion on talk page. Monstrelet (talk) 18:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• Valens Thessalonicus
• Damasithymus
• Over Burrow Roman Fort
• Later Roman EmpireAssessed as B-class. The lead has been expanded since it was last assessed - Dumelow (talk) 22:27, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Medieval

• Siege of Bursa
• Battle of Wels
• Battle of Lobregal Coverage of actual battle is weak, though this seems to be due to lack of detailed sources. No supporting materials so fails B5 Monstrelet (talk) 11:28, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Desiderius Rátót
• Guy II, Count of Saint-Pol
• Giroie, Lord of Échauffour
• Byzantine–Serbian War (1090–1095)
• Floris I van Haamstede The classification needs attention - wiki central classification has this as a stub and it isn't.Monstrelet (talk) 16:27, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Early Muslim

• Ikrima ibn Amr
• Siege of Tomar
• Neboulos

Early Modern

• Sydnam Poyntz
• Søren Norby
• William Killigrew (1606–1695)
• HMS Warspite (1666)
• Sefer Reis
• Pasquino Corso
• Capture of Valkenburg (1574) b2=no, doesn't feel complete. Open to reassess if that is all that is known about the event - Dumelow (talk) 16:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• Siege of Lier (1582) b2=no - Dumelow (talk) 16:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

American Revolutionary War

• Raid on Charles Town B-Class. Zawed (talk) 06:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Samuel Elbert
• Thomas Overton
• The Radicalism of the American Revolution
• Davidson's Fort

Napoleonic

• John Piper (military officer)b1=n, I rescued a broken ref but a couple of citations still needed - Dumelow (talk) 11:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• Sir William Beauchamp-Proctor, 3rd Baronet
• Richard Valentine Morris
• Kitty (1800 ship) b1=n, couple of missing refs
• Henri Victor Roulland
• Henry Frederick Campbell
• George de Grey, 3rd Baron Walsingham
• British Tar (1804 ship) b2=no - Dumelow (talk) 15:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

American Civil War

• Silas H. Stringham B class. Added section headings; added additional text and citations to American Civil War section. Donner60 (talk) 07:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• Edwin H. Webster B class. Added to lede, separated text into more sections, added a little information and another reference. Donner60 (talk) 03:38, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• Augustus A. Chapman
• John Lawrence LeConte
• Madame Turchin
• David Wallis Reeves
• Walter Goodale Morrill
• Gettysburg Museum and Visitor Center

World War I

• John Sydney Lethbridge B-Class. Zawed (talk) 07:27, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Robert Bridgeman, 2nd Viscount Bridgeman b1=n, better source needed tag added - Dumelow (talk) 08:17, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• German War Graves Commission
• Charles Justin Bailey b1=no - Dumelow (talk) 08:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Short Folder b1=no - Dumelow (talk) 06:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• Commander-in-Chief, South Atlantic
• Leander-class cruiser (1882) Reassessed as start, issues with sourcing plus large chunks of text expressed as quotes. Zawed (talk) 07:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• HMS Syren (1900) expanded lead, assessed as B-class - Dumelow (talk) 20:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

World War II

• List of Allied airmen from the Great Escape
• Moscow Conference (1942)
• War Shipping AdministrationB3 met, but B1 no. Zawed (talk) 09:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yank, the Army Weekly
• USS Araner (IX-226) reassessed as start, as both B2 and B3 are a no. Zawed (talk) 07:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Harold Redman
• Keep Calm and Carry On
• Hans Stark b1=no, has a fails verification tag already - Dumelow (talk) 08:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Cold War

• South Vietnamese Popular Force
• Project 58/58A
• David Peel Yates
• John Grover (British Army officer) Structure seems okay. Expanded intro. B-class. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
• Peter Harding (RAF officer, born 1940) structure OK, but B1, B2 no. Zawed (talk) 09:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Đông Hà Combat Base
• Adrian Nance
• Vladimír Nedvěd Looks OK for B class to me - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Post-Cold War

• USS North Dakota (SSN-784)
• 2008–2009 Garamba offensive
• Sinjar Resistance Units
• La vita non perde valore
• 2011–12 in the Mexican drug war
• Syriac Military Council
• 2013 Yemeni hospital attack
• 2014 Radda bombings b2=no - Dumelow (talk) 15:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Luftflotte 5

I'm looking for better sources on this air fleet, any suggestions? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 10:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I found Operation Barbarossa: the Complete Organisational and Statistical Analysis (pp. 225-230) which may help. Alansplodge (talk) 15:21, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Also Luftwaffe over Finland (pp. 5-6) Alansplodge (talk) 15:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh well, how about Axis blockade runners? Keith-264 (talk) 23:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a butcher's. I'm looking for more info on its anti-shipping operations. Keith-264 (talk) 16:13, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Took a peek at Wiki de and there's an OOB lifted from Niehorster that should come in handy, I've copied it into Convoy PQ 15 talk, for convenience. Keith-264 (talk) 11:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Tables question

Operation Stonewall I'm changing lists to tables and wonder if there's a way to thicken some of the horizontal lines to separate groups of ships? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 16:15, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Keith-264, it's a bit fiddly but you can assign each of the four borders of a cell to a different style. I've done an example below for the first line of a table from the article you linked - Dumelow (talk) 09:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

TF.21.

Name	Flag	Type	Notes
USS Card	United States Navy	Bogue-class escort carrier	Task Group.21.14
USS Decatur	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.14
USS Leary	United States Navy	Wickes-class destroyer	Task Group.21.14
USS Schenck	United States Navy	Wickes-class destroyer	Task Group.21.14
USS Core	United States Navy	Bogue-class escort carrier	Task Group.21.15
USS Belknap	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.15
USS George E. Badger	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.15
USS Goldsborough	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.15
USS Block Island	United States Navy	Bogue-class escort carrier	Task Group.21.16
USS Bulmer	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.16
USS Barker	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.16
USS Paul Jones	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.16
USS Parrott	United States Navy	Clemson-class destroyer	Task Group.21.16

It is a bit fiddly isn't it? I'll have a play over the weekend, thanks ;O) Keith-264 (talk) 09:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Ooh-er, I've chopped and changed your notation but can't underline USS Schenk to separate TG 21.4, then do the same to the other TGs. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 12:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I've edited the table above to reflect what I think you want. Hopefully that gives you a model to apply it - Dumelow (talk) 17:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

One thing to say this won't make sense if the tables are sorted eg. by name so you may want to turn off sorting (I have done so above)- Dumelow (talk) 17:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

{od}} I'd worked out that I'd have to repeat the four lines at each change of TG but I couldn't stop entries skipping cells. Thanks. Keith-264 (talk) 20:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Russo-Caucasian conflict

Came across this newly minted article by a newly minted editor. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I find something strikingly peculiar about the article? Cinderella157 (talk) 04:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Pic question

[[File:B-24 Liberators at low altitude.jpg|thumb|upright|left|B-24s bomb the [[Ploiești]] oil fields in August 1943.]] I see that some pics these days have thumb and upright. I thought that upright was for altering the size of the pic that takes account of the different sized screens that people use. Is there a reason for combining thumb and upright that I've missed? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 10:16, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Keith-264 You should always combine these. Thumb allows for the normal presentation of images on-wiki, including captions, while upright scales with the size of the device a person is viewing the article with (as you noted). Non-thumbed images are rare. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 08:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg#Buhl-Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg?

Your input would be welcome in the discussion about the real name of the former German Minister of Defense, Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg. Thank you! Renerpho (talk) 03:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I think I have found a hoax

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fort Greene, North Carolina; while I can find evidence of a "Camp Green" from 1917-1919, I cannot find support for the specific claims. The article claims to be about a US Army fort in North Carolina active since 1890. Hog Farm _Talk 23:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I also came across this one during the WP:NOV24 drive and found nothing. You may also be interested in Camp Carlisle, Virginia, which appears to have existed at least - Dumelow (talk) 23:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Conversation on Vital Articles about adding and removing several types of military aircraft.

I have created a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/STEM that discusses adding/removing several types of aircraft, with an emphasis on removing some U.S. planes due to them being over represented and adding non-U.S. aircraft. Please feel free to join the conversation. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 01:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Cramlington Aerodrome

Myself and another editor have reached an impasse regarding a trivial detail in this article. A third opinion would be welcomed. Synopsis;

• Cramlington Aerodrome was created in 1915 as a response to Zeppelin raids
• At this time the British Army and Royal Navy were still arguing over who was responsible for Home Defence.
• When the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) took charge, was the airfield name changed to reflect this?
• When the Royal Air Force (RAF) came into being, was the airfield name changed to reflect this?
• Logic suggests that on both occasions, the name of the establishment should change, but is this supported by any evidence?
• Two sources are cited as support for a change of name - but is either of them a reliable source?

WendlingCrusader (talk) 00:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Joseph McCarthy

Joseph McCarthy has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested Page: CARDOM-T

There is already a page on the standard CARDOM. Is the upgraded T-variant different enough to create a new article for it, or could it become a sub-section of the existing page? Tylermack999 (talk) 14:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a variant, so it should probably be added as a subsection to the existing page. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Understood, I can start that subsection on the Cardom page. Should I remove it from the requested articles or leave it there? Tylermack999 (talk) 14:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Burn notice (document)#Requested move 8 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Burn notice (document)#Requested move 8 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 16:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Israel–Hamas war spillover in Syria

I need help here.. so The current Israel-Hamas war has spillovers is many countries in the region obviously. In Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present), every theatre is Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)#Events by country has a main, more in-depth article except Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)#Syria. I wanted to create an article detailing the spillover from strikes, statements, and especially the Recent ground operations, Israeli military constructions within Syrian territory (whcih also included resulted in some notable news). at the same time, I want it to be coordinated, and sure to be justified and in-form of the general Wikipedia mode of publication/operation. I created it as a draft and I was directed here by the Wikipedia Help Desk to seek help. I'm sure my draft is not the best it can be yet. Can people interested in the matter help? RamiPat (talk) 20:20, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Nominations for military historian of the year for 2024 are open!

Military historian of the year 2024

• 
  First place
• 
  Second place
• 
  Third place

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. As part of the first step to determining this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate those that they feel deserve a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months.

The nomination process will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period of will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 1 December during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 on 30 December, the top three editors will be awarded the Gold, Silver and Bronze Wiki respectively; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Nominations for military history newcomer of the year for 2024 are open!

Military history newcomer of the year 2024

• 
  First place
• 
  Runners up

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. In addition to the Military historian of the year, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate a promising newcomer that they feel deserves a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months for the Military history newcomer of the year award. The award is open to any editor who has become active in military history articles in the last 12 months.

Like the Military Historian of the Year, the nomination process will begin at 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November 2024. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period will commence on 00:01 1 December 2024 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2024, the top editor will be awarded the Gold Wiki; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self-nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! On behalf of all the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@DeadlyRampage26 seems to be doing a bit of work in the Australian military history. He created Surface Fleet Review, List of missiles of Australia, and it looks like he has a few other drafts of military projects at User:DeadlyRampage26/drafts. He also got the Surface fleet article up to GA. I don't know what the requirement is though for something to count as 'history' over here as most of his articles are based on recent events. Potato1942 (talk) 04:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Attack on Mers-el-Kébir

Does anyone have sources for the FAA squadrons embarked on Ark Royal? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 19:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@Keith-264

800 (Skua), 810 (Swordfish) and 818 (Swordfish) squadrons. Source: Sturtivant, Ray (1984). The Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm. Air-Britain. ISBN 0 85130 120 7. pages 155, 198 and 237 respectively. Nthep (talk) 19:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Keith-264 (talk) 19:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)